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CHALLENGE MEET 2009: Suggest lifts
(Read 59833 times)
Warren Djemal
Lifter
 
United Kingdom United Kingdom Male 88 posts
WWW
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2009, 07:32:59 pm »

http://weightlifting.moonfruit.com/#/teethlift/4511806489

Let's go
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Timothy McIlhinney
Judge
 
United Kingdom United Kingdom Male 10 posts
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2009, 04:59:07 pm »

DB exercises are good. How's about DB clean and press? Obviosly it would depend on what equipment people have. One hand DL sounds good. Hows about somthing like the classic pull-over-and-push (slightly different to the pull-over-and-press):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akl5OnFkORI

Although this is a hard one for fatties like me.

Straddle lift?
One arm clean and jerk but using a 7' barbell?
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Chris Cooper
Judge
 
Canada Canada Male 27 posts
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2009, 04:39:01 pm »

Why not a floor-to-overhead lockout anyhow?
...load/unload?  Bodyweight BP for reps?
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2009, 10:49:59 pm »

Reminder: The deadline to suggest lifts is this week's Thursday (June 11th). Smiley

After that I will make a proposition for what the meet could look like based on the suggestions.
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 10:42:06 pm »

Update: I will present a suggestion for how the meet could look on Wednesday for feedback. If anyone still has any last minute suggestion, feel free to enter them below.

A BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO POSTED A SUGGESTION!
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2009, 10:12:57 pm »

Here is my proposal for what the Challenge meet will look like.

For this meet, I want to put the focus on willpower and pure effort. To that end, I have selected fairly non-technical lifts where you either get the bar from start to finish, or you don't. This will be a clear departure from the usual fare where there is often, especially for the powerlifts, many aspects of the lift that need to be done correctly to get it accepted.

To take this line of thought further, I suggest that:

 - you can take as many attempts as you want on each lift (this shifts the focus from meet strategy to giving what you got and also allows you to come into the meet without carefully gauging maxes beforehand if you like). But the lifts have to be done in the stated order and you cannot go back for more attempts once you started the next lift. The maximum time for the meet is 3 hours.
 
 - the two best clips for each lift are sent in (since the rules are simple, you should be able to tell whether a lift was good or not easily, but a second clip gives us some margin here)
 
 - we will not put a big effort into scoring this meet. First, it is hard to do it in a fair way when bodyweights are involved. Second, the focus on this meet will be beating yourself and going all the way and beyond. Which of the lifts are impressive will be self-evident even without us attaching a precise score for each lift. Those lifts will definitively be highlighted.

I have erred on the side of being conservative in terms of equipment: all you need is a barbell and something to hang from. I would love to have some dumbell exercise in here (a clean would have been especially cool in my book), but since many of our participants lift at home, they may not have enough dumbell weight for this kind of stuff. I also erred on the side of not including lifts which require a lot of practice to learn (for example, while a Turkish get-up is a very good whole body challenge lift, it does take some practice to learn how to get up). I have also focused on mixing rep work with max weight work and have tried to focus on lifts that would not particularly favor weightlifters over powerlifters or vice versa. Here are my suggestions:   

1) full range front-squats for max reps (bodyweight for men, 2/3 for women?): hold the bar any way you like, as long as it is between chest level and chin level (however, no towels or aids like a Sting Ray are accepted). You need to go all the way down for each rep.

2) kneeling clean and press for max weight: I liked Tim's pullover and push suggestion, but in the end I think that particular lift is pretty technical in terms of learning the timing and could even be a bit dangerous if attempted for max weight without previous experience. But based on Tim's YouTube link, I found the kneeling clean and press which I found to be an interesting combination of an explosive movement and a very strict press. It will also give your legs a bit of rest after the squats, and your knees should be pretty well warmed up by then too... Alternatively, I would suggest going with Chris's suggestion of a floor-to-overhead lockout; how you get it there does not matter; you can drag, support, press etc. as much as you want.



3) bodyweight chins for max reps (another popular suggestion): use any grip (wide, narrow, reversed, mixed... however, you cannot change grips in the middle of an attempt), but the chin needs to clear the bar for a repetition to be accepted. You can use momentum, but the feet need to be crossed and touching each other at all times and you need to return to a full hang (elbows not bent) between reps (I think this could be a good compromise between making this hard to judge and allowing unlimited momentum).
 
4) one-handed deadlift for max weight: this got much support and we definitively want one grip exercise in here; also easy to understand and judge.
 
So now it's feedback time! Do you think the general idea behind this meet is a good one? What about the lifts?

Feedback is welcome until Monday June 29th. Depending on your thoughts I will either present a new suggestion or make the final decision on what the meet will look like after that.
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Ramon Gysin
Lifter
 
Switzerland Switzerland Male 14 posts
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2009, 10:43:54 pm »

In my opinion great ideas, I'll be in for that one! For sure!

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Christian Burger
Staff  [Moderator, German Translator]
 
Austria Austria Male 598 posts
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2009, 06:49:52 am »

Sounds very good. And very challenging indeed.
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2009, 01:13:46 pm »

- the two best clips for each lift are sent in (since the rules are simple, you should be able to tell whether a lift was good or not easily, but a second clip gives us some margin here)

This should be re-phrased as: a maximum of two clips can be sent in for each lift. On some lifts, at least the front squat max reps, many lifters will probably only do one hard set and sending in the two best attempts make little sense then. So: you can send in one or two attempts of your choosing.
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Michael Amos
Staff  [Developer]
 
United States United States Male 34 posts
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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2009, 04:02:51 pm »

This looks like a brilliant meet Chris. One question, what will the timeframe in which the lifts must be tried look like? All within 2 hours, 24 hours, a long weekend?
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
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« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2009, 06:25:33 pm »

One question, what will the timeframe in which the lifts must be tried look like? All within 2 hours, 24 hours, a long weekend?

Well, I suggested 3 hours in my proposal, but I'm open to all suggestions. One part of me wants to cut it down to 2 hours to take some slacking time out of it, the other part of me thinks it's fine to have a nap in between and come back to push some more... Nothing says a long weekend couldn't work either, but I have a feeling most people would not, say, try a max front squat for reps two days in a row.

Cutting the meet time down is a challenge in the sense that it'll keep your sweat running, keeping it at three hours or more is a challenge in the sense that you can load up a bit and push harder on each exercise.

What do you folks think?
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Michael Amos
Staff  [Developer]
 
United States United States Male 34 posts
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« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2009, 04:21:27 pm »

I would support either arrangement (a couple hours vs a couple days). Is there a fixed lift order? It seems like that could have an enormous on outcomes and safety. What counts as full range of motion on the front squat and how does a missed rep count, does it end your set or just come out of your totale, eg I do 30 reps but don't go deep enough on rep 17, do I get 16 or 29 or something else?
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
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« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2009, 07:46:30 pm »

Is there a fixed lift order?

Yes, the suggestion is to do the lifts in the order given in the proposal. So front squat, kneeling clean and press, chins and one-handed deadlift. I figured that we would put the most demanding one first and to save the grip dependent one for last as to not affect the other lifts, notably the chin. I then put the kneeling clean and press after the squat with the rationale that your knees should be nice and warm by then. Do you think this order would work or would you prefer another order?

Quote
What counts as full range of motion on the front squat and how does a missed rep count, does it end your set or just come out of your totale, eg I do 30 reps but don't go deep enough on rep 17, do I get 16 or 29 or something else?

I suspect that most of us have a pretty good intuition of what a full rep looks like. I am not talking about maximum depth, eg. basically touching your calves to your buttocks, but about a rep that is way below parallel and one that looks like you couldn't go much deeper without blowing your knee caps off. To keep the judging in line with the relaxed rule set, I would basically leave it at that while providing some example video to make sure everyone is on the same page. But as a rule of thumb, the depth will not be gauged with a magnifying glass: if it's clearly way beyond parallel it ought to be enough. Anyway, video to follow.

I think the only fair way is to disqualify reps on a rep-by-rep basis. Using your example, that would mean that you would clock in at 29 reps if rep 17 is too high. This is also how the military bench for reps meet in August will be scored.

Good questions, we are again a few steps closer to clarifying what this meet will look like. Keep 'em coming folks. Smiley
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
WWW
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2009, 09:38:58 pm »

Feedback is welcome until Monday June 29th. Depending on your thoughts I will either present a new suggestion or make the final decision on what the meet will look like after that.

The suggestion got good feedback, so it is now final. The challenge meet thus consists of the following lifts:

1) full range front-squats for max reps
2) kneeling clean and press for max weight
3) bodyweight chins for max reps
4) one-handed deadlift for max weight

See this thread above for some more detail. The rules and video example of proper depth on the front squat will come in July after the smoke has cleared from the gathering. Smiley

All and any questions welcome. And no, it's not too early to start working on these lifts...
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Christian Burger
Staff  [Moderator, German Translator]
 
Austria Austria Male 598 posts
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2009, 08:54:57 am »

... very easy to do:

one-hand-deadlift ( n o   hookgrip) with the regular-bar.

rules: lifting to the knees. no lock out or hold needed. this is a grip-strength-discipline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Cc1LI&feature=channel_page

Just to double check for the rules on the one hand deadlift: Concerning judging we will go with the rules that Walter stated and is used in the Grip championships. Is this the common understanding? I think these rules make sense and are used in grip competitions so I would favor these.
I am only bringing it up because there is more than 1 way to do 1 hand deadlift (suitcase DL, ...).

I found I have 1 issue with the chin ups. I do not have a chin up bar available so I place the bar on the highest position in the rack. In order to avoid touching the floor on going down I cannot have the legs together at bottom position but have to have them apart. Would that constitute a problem?
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