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Rules draft: weightlifting
(Read 37162 times)
Chip Conrad
Registered member
 
United States United States Male 5 posts
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2008, 06:25:36 pm »

Kat, although your power snatch is greater than your full, this will change.  Unlike squat depth, where a shallower squat will ensure more weight moved, Olympic lifts, with practice, become the opposite.  Depth technique will eventually create a scenario in which you can get under MORE weight faster, if you have the flexibility (the biggest inhibitor for depth for folks who have experience but still don't drop deep is simply the ability to squat deep).

The evolution of these lifts was, over time, finding the most effective technique for getting the largest amount of weight overhead quickly.  With that in mind, we can see where they are 'weight' lifts, not necessarily needing to be judged on pure beauty. My weightlifting team sometimes falls into the habit of arguing about perfect technique and how lifters should be judged on form.  To end the argument I just ask them to watch my lifts.  They ain't pretty, and they never will be, but they thankfully meet the current specifications for competition.  If grace were part of the equation, I'd have to look for a new sport.
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Vadim Rudometov
Staff  [Russian Translator]
 
Moldova, Republic of Moldova, Republic of Male 7 posts
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2008, 01:04:15 pm »

Thanks everybody for joining this “panel”! You have dispelled my uncertainties as per Power/Full style variations full stop. You have helped me to make my goals and priorities much more articulated. Smiley
Because, at least for me, it was not a trivial question.
Well, absence of a platform at our gym is not a great deal of an issue for me any more. I now can approach my power snatch more confidently and, hopefully, try and see about this ½ discrepancy between my Snatch and C&J. No doubt, this sport is all about confidence. No more excuses for my waiving the Snatch.  Cool  Grin



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When Chuck Norris talks, everybody listens. And dies.
Warren Djemal
Lifter
 
United Kingdom United Kingdom Male 88 posts
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2009, 07:35:43 pm »

If the judging side of things is too messy, I would suggest that lifters at least try to do the classic lifts rather than the power versions where possible. At least we're all on the same page then!
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2009, 09:21:55 pm »

I think the judging side of things boils down to having good enough judges who know a good lift regardless of whether it is textbook style or not. I think most people who are serious about excelling in Olympic lifting will try to learn and perfect the textbook style early on which indeed may lead them to lift less weight in the beginning. But our aim is to stay as closely aligned as possible with the official rules of the sport and since they do allow the power versions we should too. This is a dilemma that is probably shared with many weightlifters out there, but it's probably not unique to the sport. In many cases, brute force will excel until technique is mastered.

But, as you Warren indicate, we can always say "hats off" for anyone who shows up with classic technique. But we must recognize that this is not something everyone can do, or even aspires to do. In a sense, it is also a good thing because it lowers the barrier to entering a meet and getting familiar with the sport, especially for us powerlifting types and people doing the weightlifts to support other sports. In the end, it is up to each and everyone to select their technique and it is our judges' job to make sure they all fall within the rules. Perhaps one day we can try a "classic meet" with stringent rules, but for now I see little point in being stricter than everyone else.
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Warren Djemal
Lifter
 
United Kingdom United Kingdom Male 88 posts
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2009, 10:41:35 am »

I guess the more people that participate in any way the better. As for long term interest in these kind of meets, they are the only reason I signed up! I've not much interest in powerlifting.

I think the site is a very original idea and I hope it goes far.
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Kat Ricker
Lifter
 
United States United States Female 79 posts
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« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2009, 06:43:08 pm »

I know a while back someone had suggested weightlifters be allowed the option of lifting in a singlet. Did anything ever come of that? I doubt it's negotiable, but for what it's worth, I think it would be hugely beneficial if we had the option.
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Keep it fun or you won't keep it
Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
WWW
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2009, 12:42:51 am »

I know a while back someone had suggested weightlifters be allowed the option of lifting in a singlet. Did anything ever come of that? I doubt it's negotiable, but for what it's worth, I think it would be hugely beneficial if we had the option.

Good question. Nothing final has been decided, but personally I am more in favor of not allowing them because it keeps the clothing rules uniform across both sports. If we allow singlets in weightlifting, we should probably also allow them in powerlifting, but as discussed earlier the situation is a bit tricky on that side of the fence. Most powerlifters also compete in singlets and/or supportive gear, so both groups are now in pretty much the same boat in that regard.

But arguments for and against are still very much welcome. Do you see any strong benefits for allowing singlets beyond being able to compete in the same gear as in a real meet (which *is* a very strong point in itself)?

The rules are begging for a series of small updates here and there, but we will roll with the current version until I have finally gotten version two of the site out the door. That is currently priority numero uno. Smiley
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Kat Ricker
Lifter
 
United States United States Female 79 posts
WWW
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 12:53:49 am »

For me, the benefit is the fit of the cloth. It's tough to find something that allows the same freedom of movement in the shoulders if it's a t-shirt, and moreover, ensures modesty. I don't want my midriff exposed in a lift; it also keeps the female chest in check. Most women's t-shirts are made on the shorter length, so when paired with shorts, there's not much coverage to play with. And most men's are crewneck, so it gets bunchy around the shoulders and neck when the arms are overhead.

Although I do feel strongly about this, I will say - I am really finicky about clothes and how they fit - so maybe someone will tell me I'm a bit overboard here? I'm curious how other weightlifters feel about it.
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Keep it fun or you won't keep it
Warren Djemal
Lifter
 
United Kingdom United Kingdom Male 88 posts
WWW
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2010, 12:39:39 pm »

Remind me again - what are the weightlifting team rules?
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
WWW
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2010, 11:58:24 pm »

Remind me again - what are the weightlifting team rules?

They are not formulated yet, hope you didn't spend a lot of time looking for them... The main reason for this is that version 2, which will make it possible to form teams, is still in the oven. I had rather hoped to release it just about now, but the fact of the matter is there is still some work to be done. I'd prefer to work out the exact rules against the backdrop of actually being able to form teams; but as the first team competition is now only a few months away (April) it is high time for a heads-up. Thanks for asking for one. Smiley

The most important point is that team competitions will NOT be separate events. Perhaps a summed up relative strength adjusted total for the X best scoring lifters for each team. This would produce a team score that could then be used to compare teams against each other and to create a team ranking. This is pretty much the same thing as how team competitions are held in at least powerlifting, but with relative strength scores instead of points by placement in each lifter's bodyweight class (under IPF rules, a first place in a class gives 9 points, second place 8 points... all the way down to 2 points for 9th place, all subsequent places give 1 point; these are then summed up for the 6 best lifters for each team to produce team results; draws are settled by comparing which team has the most first places). 

If we do this, then the main questions to settle is how many lifters that should be counted towards the team score (3? 6?), whether to also allow teams with less than that amount to compete in the team competitions even while thus handicapped and whether to only count team points if a team explicitly wants to take part in the team competitions (this would seem fair).

As I wrote before, I don't expect that there will be many teams ready by the April weightlifting meet, but this meet will mark the beginning of when teams will start to get noted for their participation and can start collecting team points. What it evolves into after that remains to be seen. Smiley

Did that clarify it a bit, or do you have any further questions or thoughts? As usual, I'm all ears.
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Warren Djemal
Lifter
 
United Kingdom United Kingdom Male 88 posts
WWW
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2010, 11:47:33 am »

If there is a team meet, do the individual scores still count towards the individual rankings? For example, say I hit a couple of PBs in the team meet, will my page/personal ranking be updated too? Or are the team meets separate leaderboards?
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Kristoffer Lindqvist
Staff  [Project Manager, Developer, Moderator, Swedish Translator]
 
Finland Finland Male 1178 posts
WWW
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2010, 02:18:14 pm »

If there is a team meet, do the individual scores still count towards the individual rankings? For example, say I hit a couple of PBs in the team meet, will my page/personal ranking be updated too?

Yes, absolutely. Everyone who competes does so individually. If you happen to belong to a team and have enough of your team mates in the same meet to qualify for team points, then your best individual scores will be aggregated to reach a team score in addition to your individual scores. So your personal bests would be recorded as usual in the personal rankings and the team score goes into a separate team ranking.

This is roughly the same concept as the Nation ranking following the Olympics ("country X came into first place by grabbing 6 gold medals, 4 silver medals and 12 bronze medals"). 
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