Virtualmeet.net

All discussion related to the 23-28 November 2010 Weightlifting meet is warmly welcome here.

Sign-up here (http://virtualmeet.net/community/forum/meet-talk/372/0/)

I sent out the first round of lifter e-mails to everyone who has signed up so far.

Warren, thanks for signing up for judging. Snow is a perfectly valid reason not to lift outdoors, but then there are not many others. :D

Now if two more judges would materialize we would be dandy. Soon time to go hunting for them as usual.

Wow, what a dud. My performance, that is. I just eeked out a couple of successful attempts. Don't know why I didn't have an easier time of it. We'll see what the judges say, but what I think I got was 5 kilos below my PR in the snatch, and 8 in the C&J. Hope others had a better meet!

I'm rooting for [Geo|Je]ff.  My own lifts sucked so badly that they have their own gravity.

I bombed  :( ... looks like it`s going to all be up to Geoff.

Snatch went well, hit a new PR on the third attempt.  Last weekend I got 122 & 125 in the C&J and felt like I had a few k`s left in the tank.  The plan was to open at 120 and work up to 127 or 130...  Missed all three attempts (on the jerk) at 120.

Stupid jerk... When they go well they feel so smooth.  When they`re a little off, well, I miss a lot.

On the plus side, I get to show off my new platform!

 ;D

No such luck. It has been 2 years since I even made an attempt at an Oly lift, and about 6 months since any weight has gone above my head.

...and it shows.

Dang, I'm starting to not feel so bad now...

We might be needing someone who doesn't mind being judgmental...

Indeed. There's plenty of judgemental people here, but unfortunately not too many with a special eye for snatches and jerks. Warren volunteered earlier, I'm now awaiting replies to two friendly judging invites. Hope to have your barbells under the microscope soon. :)

I am Judge Mental.

:D

Update: Ramon Gysin (http://virtualmeet.net/adrnline/) volunteered to judge, now we're only one judge short.

Update: Jamie Jamieson (http://virtualmeet.net/jamie/) didn't take many seconds to raise his hand either. Starting to push the meet to the judges now.

The meet is now with the judges. As usual, you can follow the progress in real time in the box above the forum. Stay tuned!

Just finished my bit. Was either hit or miss on all the lifts, no technical failures.

Form dissection:

Kat - Naughty Kat, you are pulling with your arms too much in the snatch. Needs more jump and trap shrug. This may also be why you are late to rotate your elbows for the clean, which means you'll miss racks when the weight goes up. You're spending too much time bent over the bar before you lift (C&Js), which may be fatiguing your legs. Jerks are sound. Also, what happened on the 3rd C&J? There wasn't a lift in the clip!

Geoff - jumping too early in the snatch, very solid jerks, can put much more weight on the bar I think.

Jeff - not much to say, the bar opened heavy on the C&J. I've no doubt you'll get that lift soon enough (if you haven't already).

Wade - I don't know how you lift with all that stuff laying around your platform. You're strong, just need to find someone local to coach you on these new movements. I hope you enjoyed it and would consider competing again.

Kris - When's your debut???

Excellent wrap-up Warren, always great to see judges giving feedback!

Parenthetically, you didn't spill any beans here that would affect the other judges so no problem, but it's a good rule of thumb to maintain radio silence until all judges have done their bit. :)


Kat, can you take a peek at your source clip? If the lift is there, let me know and we'll have it judged manually.


Not any time soon. I actually did start training for one a couple of years ago but ended up getting the upper back really messed up due to not being flexible enough in the upper back/shoulder department. When it got so bad I couldn't even raise a stick overhead I called it quits. I loved getting to know the lifts (and drop snatches really rocked!) so I may be back a-stretching in the future. But the first order of the business is really to get back in some kind of shape overall again. If the Gathering happens 2011, I'll at least hit the PL platform then.

Wade, did you do any stretching/mobility work before starting on the WL stuff? Or were you already mobile enough?

I had to really work the dislocates hard to get enough shoulder flexibility to do the snatches.  In the end it still wasn't enough as I couldn't get the bar behind my head enough to drop underneath the snatches.  I've improved a bit since the competition, but I'm still not nearly flexible enough.

I've also noted that my upper middle back is getting pounded with the olympic lifts.  Just catching and holding the bar in place has done good things between my shoulder blades.

I now see why it's much easier to move from Oly lifting to powerlifting, but the reverse is difficult.  Oly lifting develops the main strength which can be used for P/L, but requires much more flexibility and technique.  P/Lers would like to believe that their lifts are technical (and they are) but not nearly so much as Olympic lifting.

I'm actually considering making the quick lifts + assistance my staple routine with an add-on of benching to stay in the P/L comps.  These old knees may be the limiting factor on that though.

Warren -

Well, both Jim Schmitz and Glenn Pendlay are within driving distance...But I'm currently unemployed so I have to make do with the online help of a former Masters American weightlifting record holder.  He's already given me some really good feedback.  I do really enjoy the lifts and plan to continue doing them. 

Then y'all will have to watch out in the comps!

I had that thought as well during my brief Oly stint. Not only because the Oly training felt really good and athletic in a way that I hadn't felt since my martial arts days, but because I saw a good opportunity there to do more with less weight (limit squats and deadlifts are not always the best thing for the old back injury..).

Take away point: hope more of our PL regulars would dare to do a Dare and try out an Oly meet for kicks.

Now here's a thought: what about hosting a "first-timers oly meet" sometime in late 2011? Add in a support group for sharing training and learning progress (and with some luck some of our resident Oly lifters would drop by from time to time to share their wisdom), plus arrange to have someone give everyone proper post-meet feedback on their lifts. Now that could be fun (and I would surely join it)... bet this would be a very exciting meet to watch too. Plus it would leave behind a valuable primer on "Olympic Lifting for Powerlifters".

This kind of concept could work nicely with other kind of meets too (some kind of CrossFit challenge meet springs to mind, or why not a PL meet for Oly lifters once there is enough interest?). It would also rhyme well with the idea of Virtualmeet being a place where lifters from different disciplines are encouraged to mingle and learn from each other. I think Virtualmeet has a lot to offer here as the barrier is a lot lower than doing this for an official meet.

Thoughts?

I am jealous of you, Wade. I'd love to train down at CS, those guys are monsters. I don't know where abouts you are in California but you should really get in contact with Dan John and explain your situation to him.

http://www.danjohn.net

Kris, I think the first timers only meet would be a good thing, but the numbers are still low for as crossover from PL.

I think if I could learn to back squat without hurting myself (last attempt involved a reverse Steinborn into my wooden floor) I would be up for attempting the CrossFit Total at the back end of next year:

library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/52-2006_CFTotal.pdf

I forgot about Dan John.  Yeah, I guess he's living in San Mateo now, about 15 minutes down the road from me.


I like the CrossFit comp idea.  I also like the idea of a five lift fusion meet where the quick lifts and the XFit total are combined.  That would be challenging simply in terms of endurance.

Meet update: a week in judging has now passed, so I'm checking up on the meet status.

Hi all, well, I'm late to the party. I just checked in and found it is being judged!

Warren, about this -

Thanks. You nailed my bad habit, at least the worst one to break, pulling with the arms in the snatch. I have been working on technique religiously with my coach for months on just this. I have good days and bad, but under pressure, like a meet, generally bad!  ::)  Ah well, we are all works in progress.

Interesting that you think I may be prepping too long. I picked up that tip from Virtual Meet ages ago on my deadlift, and it's been a HUGE help. So I look forward to seeing if that helps me as well.

Hmm, a missing clip! It's probably too late to be added to the meet now, but I'll look for it anyway, Kris.

Wade, if you are within Jim Schmitz driving distance, you are also within distance of Chip Conrad's Bodytribe in Sacramento. I highly recommend you check that out. In fact, I can't recommend it highly enough. Check it out online.

Thanks everyone, for another VM. No matter how it goes, it's always satisfying to have DONE it.  8)

Kat -

Thanks for the suggestion.  Sacramento's a little too far for me, though - or I'm just not that dedicated...

Kat, if the third attempt is not cut short on the original, I'm sure the judges would not mind judging one more, especially as the judging is still not done. E-mail me if you have a clip to send me. :)

I have not yet heard back from the third judge, hope all is well at that end. If I haven't gotten any word this time tomorrow then I'm going to start looking for a replacement so we can get this meet out and the bench meet into judging (the current judging interface does not support concurrent meets in judging). If anyone who did not compete feels up for some weightlifting judging, let me know. :)

Kat, did you have a chance to check out the truncated clip?

Hi Kris,

I can't find it. In fact, I can't locate any of them at the moment from the meet.. weird. No matter, because I missed the lift. Thanks for checking.

The meet has finally been released! (http://virtualmeet.net/meets/201011wl/)

The delay in judging turned out to be due to a simple misunderstanding in regard to when the meet was (i.e. that it had already been held) combined with an older e-mail address that was not checked so frequently. These things can happen, just very happy to see this out before Christmas. Sorry for the delay, thanks to all the judges and the lifters who took part (especially so to Wade/Tony Dare who came in very well in his first Oly platform encounter).

Nice job everyone.

Kat's got a real nice-looking jerk going (no entendre -  double or otherwise - intended).  You get under the bar nicely.

Congrats to Geoff for going 6 for 6 in the meet.

Jeff was so close on each of his CJ's that I fear for my placing in our next meet.  I gotta get my game up a good bit to approach his level.

Thanks for competing!

Wade: I was just looking at the updated rankings and thinking I've got to up my game if I'm going to stay ahead of you...  you're stronger than me in the squat and deadlift and still power cleaning the weight up.

I think Kat needs to give us some jerk tips. what's the trick to getting a solid lock out Kat?  Any jerk drills you'd recommend?

Geoff: why the same weight on the 2nd and 3rd snatch attempts?  The 3rd was definitely better, but the second looked passable.

Warren: Yeah, I`ve made 120 a number of times - and now I can prove it: http://www.albertaweightlifting.com/Assets/Results/2010prov.pdf

Geoff, awesome depth on your jerk squat - did you scrape your knee? Great control on the bar return on all attempts, too. Hats off for getting all six - did you go for a final bonus attempt off-camera? (My LWC does this if you make all 6, just for kicks)

Wade, I love your homey gym corner! And are those metal plates? Bad ass! Good dump on your final C&J attempt.

Jeff, nice use of your garage. You nail the landing in the snatch, and in general your form looks tight. I believe Kris used your silhouette for the T-shirt. My heart went out to you in the jerks. It was all there; you just looked slow today.

I'm looking to you guys for how to pull off this dress code without looking ridiculous. I think Wade's shirt tuck is a good way to go.

Thanks for the jerk kudos, guys. It's the one thing I can do right. I just moved jerk blocks into my gym last night, so I'm about to bust that way out.

Kris, my final C&J attempt short clip - that was when my battery died. As you can see, timing couldn't have been more dramatic.

Thanks all for making the meet happen. Bigger, stronger, faster!

Merry Christmas and a happy new year! Looking forward to being on the platform with you all again next year.

Jeff, I was worried in my second attempt that one elbow locked prior to the other, and the one that was delayed was pressed out  :(

Kat, no knee scrape  ;D

No bonus lift, I was somewhat hesitant to even enter this meet, I don't practice the O lifts at all. I do now though, I hope to have the snatch much heavier next time as well as work on my clean catch, as my press is much more comfortable (as I think is noticeable  ;D )

Just noticed this: A judge turned down my C&J's for bad attire? 

Really?

Wade, the second judge flagged down a total of seven lifts for bad_attire. I strongly suspect he simply meant to use another failure reason. With the exception of your third snatch attempt, which got one white, all of these seven lifts were three reds so the calls themselves were definitively well-grounded.

Not disputing or complaining, I just thought it was funny.  I so clearly failed on the lift in question that three reds was a given.  Being poorly dressed for it simply wasn't a reason I had considered as a possibility for failure.

Sorry if my amusement didn't come across very well.

Here's my current thinking on attire for weightlifting. It's just not the same as powerlifting, where a suit can give you an advantage. Lets look at the areas separately:

Elbow/knee/wrist wraps: seem sensible for older lifters and those with joint issues. I'd rather see people who use these compete rather than be put off. The primary concern should be safety, then inclusiveness. The only issue I can see with judging is the elbows pressing out, so maybe elbow wraps are out. Depth isn't judged so knees are a non-issue. Plus, overwrap the knee and you can't get depth, so too much disadvantages yourself.

Belts: Safety for the lower back. I'd use one if you're at risk.

Shoes: if you lift without shoes, you're most likely disadvantaging yourself. It's still safer than wearing inappropriate footwear. If you're determined to compete and you can't afford WL shoes, I'd rather see barefoot than a pair of squashy soles, sandals or flip-flops. Again, safety first.

T-shirt and shorts vs singlets: I think either should be allowed. WL singlets offer no advantage over T-shirt and shorts other than added safety against catching clothes on the bar. If you've got one you should use it.

I know the whole point of attire rules is to make competition more uniform and fair, but you're only going to be 100% fair on the same platform with the same bar. I'd rather see more people lifting, and lifting safely.

I've been wondering about the singlets.  I have two now and they are very comfortable to lift in.  I used shirt and shorts in the weightlifting meet because that's what the rules stated was the required attire, but can you wear a singlet if you have one?  Or two (I'd only wear one at a time...promise.)?

I've also rallied here for singlets to be allowed in weightlifting. Warren, you make great points. It's true, they don't really assist, like powerlifting suits, but they do allow you to concentrate on the lift by keeping it smooth, and also, keep tummies from being exposed.

Whaddya think, Kris? Any chance you might revisit this?

First of all, I must say I am delighted every time I see people seriously interested in the weightlifting meets (especially now that I am again thinking about what meets to offer in 2011... good timing there).

And yeah, I am definitively very open to allowing singlets in the weightlifting events. Singlets were actually allowed up to August 2007 (http://virtualmeet.net/community/forum/technical-questions/45/msg267/#msg267), but those were the dark ages a full year before virtual weightlifting was introduced (whoa, time flies). Up until that time nobody had actually worn them either so singlets have yet to be seen in virtualmeets. My main argument for not allowing singlets in weightlifting has always been to keep the clothing/gear rules uniform across events. But as this issue keeps popping up and everyone so far has been in favor of allowing them, I think there may be bigger benefits to be had by allowing singlets instead of forcing everyone to lift in gear that is pretty atypical to weightlifting (again, live and learn  ;D). Unlike in powerlifting, where it is a fine line between a true singlet and supportive gear, I fully agree with you all that there would be no real issues with allowing singlets for weightlifting either.

Now to more pressing issues: about when would you fine folks like to debut your singlets on the virtual stage? :)

WHOO-HOO!!!  :o ;D

I am thrilled to read this! Really great news, as figuring out how to make an outfit work has been a growing headache for me in the VM.

As to when, hmm, we need a spring meet, April or June, a fall meet, pry Sept., and a winter meet is just plain fun.